emo as misogyny

[mark]

so, yeah, the standard criticism of emo from the indie and generally superior-acting types is "oh it's all so whiny, stop complaining about failing your maths test and a girl looking at you funny once and blah blah blah blah blah"

there is, however, a school of thought that suggests that there's a bigger problem with it, which is one of misogyny. not in the traditional (well, ish) way of commercial hip-hop with objectification &c. there are two problems.

the first is that it generally ascribes evil to women (sometimes in general, sometimes just towards the one the lyricist has personally met). whether evil/malice is worse than being an object is unclear.

the second is the development. if you look at, say, braid or sunny day real estate, you still get names and characteristics ascribed. it's a two-way process, and regret features highly. presently, it's just anger and fear.

discuss.

(i may or may not be using this as a means of drafting a research proposal for my master's)

[kenners]

Unfortunately I have not a lot to add to Mark's serious points... I just have some moaning to do while I'm waiting for the rain to stop so I can go home.

My personal nightmare caused by emo is the fact that the shops have been flooded with tight skinny jeans. This is all well and good if stylish, thin people wear them... its all very pretty... but I really really really don't want to have to be surrounded by 'bulgy people' trying to fit into them and distressing me when I'm walking around.

Yes I'm a judgemental cow, but dear goodness me you didn't have to see the 40 plus year old with them on this morning... fucking awful. Not only was there bulge at the top, but also at the bottom... bulging ankles for goodness sake. I am relatively traumatised by this.

They can't actually be comfortable either if you're wearing them like that... I honestly don't understand, the whole thing just confuses me.

[tj]

i have various problems with the many emo-based genres, but a supposed air of misogyny isn't one of them - by that logic, thousands of pop songs since the 50s are guilty of the same crime (ie attributing evil/malevolance to lovers): i will survive/tears on my pillow/the witch/femme fatale/anything by the cure, and so on. the only difference here is the lyrical juxtaposition with more visual suggestions of pain&sadness, shock imagery and bleeding-heart candour that provoke such a kneejerk reaction from the "stop whinging about your problems" brigade. ultimately the bulk of the subject matter is still, as ever, love/sadness/relationships, not "i'ma kill you ho cos you cheated on me".

more to my complaint is the cookie-cutter nature of the genre these days, and i don't think that'll help with your master's much...

[rob]

You wouldn't get any of these problems if people still liked Def Leppard and Bon Jovi, would you?

[mv]

rob said:

You wouldn't get any of these problems if people still liked Def Leppard and Bon Jovi, would you?

Isn't chart-friendly emo a bit like the modern equivalent of these guys? The same histrionic chest-beating, the same ludicrous wailing, the same glossy, inoffensive sheen?

Yes.

[rob]

Some things may have been better left unsaid.

[mv]

rob said:

Some things may have been better left unsaid.

Bah to subtlety, say I.

[david]

What's more cliched than emo though is people trying to do masters degrees in stuff like this. Just go and study some Greek people and stop trying to waste taxpayer's money on something relevent Mark.

[tjo]

Edit; I can't use quotes it seems. Kenners said
the shops have been flooded with tight skinny jeans

Yeah. You just gave the nail a sore head.
The problem with emo, and many many other kinds of music, is that the music is almost an afterthought to the clothing, hairstyles, attitudes and general faggotry. Just live life by this general rule and you'll be a happier human being; if you can look at a person and tell what kind of music they like, that person is a faggot and you should stay away from them because you are better than them.
And I'd wager emo music, when it comes down to it, is far more commercial than pop. It just has a slightly more niche market.

[admin]

Interestingly, the Blink 182 CD I'm currently listening to has just thrown up the lyric "Girls possess me, but they're never mine"

I do think that no matter what people say, the whole 'woman-hate-and-fear' thing is ingrained in the genre.

Pop-psychology-esque points:
-Girl emo bands? discuss.
-Also cf. girls in emo bands (like that one in Straylight Run)
discuss.

[tom]

tjo said:

Edit; I can't use quotes it seems. Kenners said
the shops have been flooded with tight skinny jeans

Yeah. You just gave the nail a sore head.
The problem with emo, and many many other kinds of music, is that the music is almost an afterthought to the clothing, hairstyles, attitudes and general faggotry. Just live life by this general rule and you'll be a happier human being; if you can look at a person and tell what kind of music they like, that person is a faggot and you should stay away from them because you are better than them.
And I'd wager emo music, when it comes down to it, is far more commercial than pop. It just has a slightly more niche market.

Um...are you taking the piss? (This is gonna look silly if you were)

I personally don't want to involve myself in any kind of scene, but I can see the attraction for certain people. For some people, that's what music's all about, we don't have to like it in the same way.

And yeah, don't use faggot as an insult, it makes you sound gay stupid.

[admin]

tom said:

And yeah, don't use faggot as an insult, it makes you sound gay stupid.

To be fair, on the internet, the word 'faggot' has transcended being an insult is basically the equivalent of the word 'and'.

[wjt]

admin said:

Interestingly, the Blink 182 CD I'm currently listening to ...

Is that really something you want to admit to?

[admin]

wjt said:

admin said:

Interestingly, the Blink 182 CD I'm currently listening to ...

Is that really something you want to admit to?

i did give some idea of context here:
indiemusicsoc.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=1154708002&page=4#1160826303

having said that, i'm almost considering not being entirely uninterested by the post-break up blink 182 band.



_{credibilty...slipping...}

[wjt]

And this is just after Rachel said that your songs were good. I'm now less convinced that I want to risk listening to them.